Actually, EWoR is/was a local group here in Brooklyn... from what I know their "compositions" are mostly deterministic as well. They built insane arrays of effects (rack/pedal/etc) that basically took on a life of their own due internal feedback and ground hum. The first time I saw them they were using guitars, but by the time this album came out (a decade ago now), they were basically laying on stage in a pile of wires and various effects units fiddling with knobs occasionally when things got too boring or too out of hand.
Oddly enough, this album is called "Stəˈkæstɪk" ... if you google it, turns out is: stochastic (but the weird phonetic spelling) ... which has had an odd streak of popularity the last few years among the holier-than-thou proggy parrot set. Which is interesting.. I guess.
Hi Dom, wondering if you have worked with Cymatics at all? It seems to me you're doing something similar to that, except using rhythm rather than tone as the basis for pattern generation.
Hi Su Terry, that is a good point. I've not worked with it but I have seen video demonstrations. One difference here would be the sound is not creating the pattern; the pattern is creating the sound. There's an almost Platonic element to it. I'm drawn to the idea of the machine creating an image that requires human interpretation. Cymatics is a fascinating field but I have not yet found a way to incorporate it into my practice.
Yes, the pattern is creating the sound! Your work is fascinating, I'll be exploring more. Would like to include it in an upcoming course I'm teaching if that's ok: cuevasdelilalo.wixsite.com/metaphysics-of-music.
Love this Dom. What scale are you using in the 750 polyrhythm? I hear the harmonic series in there and wondered if you'd coded that in or if it is emerging from the notes combining.
I'd love to see animated versions with the sound so I can spot when I'm hearing the different star patterns in there.
It also makes me wonder if there's some fun to be had combining polyrhythms with the harmonograph, so using time as a plotting parameter instead of an axis.
Thanks Tim. Your ears are good. It is the harmonic series! I thought exactly the same about an animated version, though it slightly exceeds my programming ability at the moment. If you're up for a collaboration I'm happy to try to create something together.
Thanks for your very interesting and thoughtful comment e.c.
The image in the post reflects a mathematical reality that could have relevance to musicians from all sorts of cultures. In that sense, it's quite different from what you are describing.
However, I have considered precisely what you have described. I agree with you, and the late musician Maud MacCarthy (possibly the first Westerner to learn Indian classical music in an immersive way) who said that 'notation kills Indian music'.
South Indian Carnatic music has a form of notation to describe rhythm. So for example, an Utterangam composition (part of a korvai) could be written as:
555 (3) 666 (3) 777 (1)
666 (3) 777 (3) 888 (1)
777 (3) 888 (3) 999
Writing that in Western notation can technically make sense, but the whole system and way of thinking is changed (as well as it becoming far more verbose). For example, bar lines have no relevance or meaning. There are cases where I use Western notation to translate an idea that might otherwise take a long time to explain, but it has to be clear that it is a translation and not a typical cultural representation.
I considered using shapes to visualise these rhythms, with colours representing different parts of the composition. If I had more time I would be tempted to do this in collaboration with an Indian classical musician, but at the moment my interest is geared more towards a kind of 'pure mathematics', rather than a specific cultural representation of music.
It's an interesting idea for sure; I expect it's happening somewhere.
In terms of stepping outside of one's cultural system, I got lucky, as I lived in a city with an Indian centre for arts that was well-funded and affordable. By spending many years there, and taking an interest in everything they had to offer, be it food, dance, days of celebration etc. I found it easier to 'think' in a new way; not just learn a bunch of new patterns and melodies. Becoming 'bi-musical'. However, while there have been many welcome changes, ethnocentricism in music is still the norm.
I think there are many ways to understand and enjoy music. The fact that notation may not be what attracts you to music is immaterial. It's just one of many ways to enjoy music: I see great beauty in it, and opportunity, but I see great beauty and opportunity in all kinds of music.
I think there is a connection here with language. It's best not to translate, but to try to fully inhabit a new language and be with the people who speak it, not in an exploitative way where you seek to extract something from them, but out of a genuine spirit of interest and friendship. If I were to learn djembe I would not want to use Western notation. It would act as a barrier. Best to get fully absorbed into it, and then perhaps years later if you wish to transcribe you have the option, but that is not how you think about the music.
The 750 poly-rhythms one is basically an entry-level Electric Waves of Resistance track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-zxGYaAp0o
Yes, similar timbre. The examples in the article are completely deterministic though, so follow a process, rather than having been shaped and composed
Actually, EWoR is/was a local group here in Brooklyn... from what I know their "compositions" are mostly deterministic as well. They built insane arrays of effects (rack/pedal/etc) that basically took on a life of their own due internal feedback and ground hum. The first time I saw them they were using guitars, but by the time this album came out (a decade ago now), they were basically laying on stage in a pile of wires and various effects units fiddling with knobs occasionally when things got too boring or too out of hand.
Oddly enough, this album is called "Stəˈkæstɪk" ... if you google it, turns out is: stochastic (but the weird phonetic spelling) ... which has had an odd streak of popularity the last few years among the holier-than-thou proggy parrot set. Which is interesting.. I guess.
Ah interesting, thanks, I will have a closer listen. Would love to visit New York someday.
Mind blowing!
Thanks Edna!
This is beautiful
Thanks Thea!
Hi Dom, wondering if you have worked with Cymatics at all? It seems to me you're doing something similar to that, except using rhythm rather than tone as the basis for pattern generation.
Hi Su Terry, that is a good point. I've not worked with it but I have seen video demonstrations. One difference here would be the sound is not creating the pattern; the pattern is creating the sound. There's an almost Platonic element to it. I'm drawn to the idea of the machine creating an image that requires human interpretation. Cymatics is a fascinating field but I have not yet found a way to incorporate it into my practice.
Yes, the pattern is creating the sound! Your work is fascinating, I'll be exploring more. Would like to include it in an upcoming course I'm teaching if that's ok: cuevasdelilalo.wixsite.com/metaphysics-of-music.
Thank you so much for the kind words. And yes, please do, I would be honoured.
Love this Dom. What scale are you using in the 750 polyrhythm? I hear the harmonic series in there and wondered if you'd coded that in or if it is emerging from the notes combining.
I'd love to see animated versions with the sound so I can spot when I'm hearing the different star patterns in there.
It also makes me wonder if there's some fun to be had combining polyrhythms with the harmonograph, so using time as a plotting parameter instead of an axis.
Thanks Tim. Your ears are good. It is the harmonic series! I thought exactly the same about an animated version, though it slightly exceeds my programming ability at the moment. If you're up for a collaboration I'm happy to try to create something together.
Let's talk about this. I'll give you a call!
Extraordinary images - beautiful to see sound visualised
Thank you!
Great post - I love musical visualisations, and seeing the patterns and shapes emerge like this is always fascinating!
Thanks Tom! Yes absolutely, especially when something defies your expectations.
Thanks for your very interesting and thoughtful comment e.c.
The image in the post reflects a mathematical reality that could have relevance to musicians from all sorts of cultures. In that sense, it's quite different from what you are describing.
However, I have considered precisely what you have described. I agree with you, and the late musician Maud MacCarthy (possibly the first Westerner to learn Indian classical music in an immersive way) who said that 'notation kills Indian music'.
South Indian Carnatic music has a form of notation to describe rhythm. So for example, an Utterangam composition (part of a korvai) could be written as:
555 (3) 666 (3) 777 (1)
666 (3) 777 (3) 888 (1)
777 (3) 888 (3) 999
Writing that in Western notation can technically make sense, but the whole system and way of thinking is changed (as well as it becoming far more verbose). For example, bar lines have no relevance or meaning. There are cases where I use Western notation to translate an idea that might otherwise take a long time to explain, but it has to be clear that it is a translation and not a typical cultural representation.
I considered using shapes to visualise these rhythms, with colours representing different parts of the composition. If I had more time I would be tempted to do this in collaboration with an Indian classical musician, but at the moment my interest is geared more towards a kind of 'pure mathematics', rather than a specific cultural representation of music.
It's an interesting idea for sure; I expect it's happening somewhere.
In terms of stepping outside of one's cultural system, I got lucky, as I lived in a city with an Indian centre for arts that was well-funded and affordable. By spending many years there, and taking an interest in everything they had to offer, be it food, dance, days of celebration etc. I found it easier to 'think' in a new way; not just learn a bunch of new patterns and melodies. Becoming 'bi-musical'. However, while there have been many welcome changes, ethnocentricism in music is still the norm.
I think there are many ways to understand and enjoy music. The fact that notation may not be what attracts you to music is immaterial. It's just one of many ways to enjoy music: I see great beauty in it, and opportunity, but I see great beauty and opportunity in all kinds of music.
I think there is a connection here with language. It's best not to translate, but to try to fully inhabit a new language and be with the people who speak it, not in an exploitative way where you seek to extract something from them, but out of a genuine spirit of interest and friendship. If I were to learn djembe I would not want to use Western notation. It would act as a barrier. Best to get fully absorbed into it, and then perhaps years later if you wish to transcribe you have the option, but that is not how you think about the music.
This is stunning!